Büezer und KMU Partei

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Thank you first of all for Inviting me. I'm Diego Rotstain from Lima, Peru. I'm a student from a catholic university here in Peru. I am also from the traditional left. And I'm very happy to talk about the political context here in Peru about Pedro Castillo and some other interesting things.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: And I'm very happy that you accepted the offer for the interview. So could you tell us what the party "Perú Libre" actually is and what it wants to achieve?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Perú Libre is more of a countryside party. They have the support of peasants and their organisations. Here we call them "Ronda Campesina" so they are a very popular party. The party's goal is to change the way that the policies have been applied here in Peru. They want a new constitution that allows the country side and other parts of Peru to develop themselves. Because the peruvian big business isn't there in the country side, but there is the presence of the united states, which extracts the natural resources of the country side, while not allowing it to develope themselves. So the party wants to develop not only Lima and the country side, but all of Peru to improve the quality of life of the people.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: Okay. That's interesting can you tell me about the history of the party? What was the reasoning of the founding? Is it a split off of a party?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Sure. Perú Libre is a fairly new party, but they have some militans like "merceron", which has a history of making policy here in Peru. Pero Castillo for instance was also active Perú Posible in the past and there was a lot of activities in the teachers unions. So there were unions of teachers, but also in the country side. A few years ago it was here in Lima, (which is the capital of Peru) that there was a manifestation of the teachers of all countries. And during that time Pedro Castillo was there, not being a member of Perú Libre, but a teacher, being active in the teacher unions. He was there and so he was in the past mainly active in teacher unions, but also in the country side.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: So is the party itself strongly connected to teaching? Because of the pencil logo?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Exactly. Also because Pedro Castillo is still a teacher.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: Are you part of Perú Libre?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: No. I'm not part from Perú Libre. I'm a member from another party, which is part of the traditional left. But we do support Pedro Castillo in these elections, because we think that it's a possibility, to improve the country and the quality of life the people. The country in these second part elections is divided between Keiko Fujimori and Pedro Castillo. Pedro Castillo is supported by the left-wing, because we think that he'll be a good president, which will allow the country to develop. Additionally he is actually talking with us (the left-wing). And as he's talking with us, it's possible for us to find common grounds and with that ground we can collaborate to apply some new policies in the new constitution.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: I see. So we've learned here from our media, that there's an elected guy in Peru, which is called "Castillo". I do not know much about him, except what you told me now. Can you tell me who he is personally and what he wants to achieve?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Yes. He's a teacher and grew up in Tacabamba, where he lived all his child hood. He became a teacher and he started doing politics, because as a teacher he knows the reality of the unions and of the peasants in the country side. While Pedro Castillo has been part of other parties, he isn't as ideologically oriented. He's from the left, but he wouldn't describe himself for instance as a "socialist". He's more a union type of politician. So he has been in other countries, but he always had the interest of changing the country side life and to develop the country. and improve the working conditions of the teachers.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: So while it's clear to me now, that he wants to do some land reform, does he want to actually nationalise or cooperatise certain private property?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: So Peru doesn't have this tendency of nationalising things, but the idea is to decentralise capital. Because in the country side, as I've said at the beginning of the interview, the economy is dependent on the big business of the United States, Canada for example, or even Chile. And so Peru can't develop itself and so this is what Perú Libre wants. To allow them to develop as a country, but not just Lima. While they are going to "nationalise" some things, it doesn't mean that the state is going to own some companies. To them it doesn't matter, if it's private or public.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: So you've mentioned Chile. Is there like a sister party called "Chile Libre"? As you've mentioned other countries earlier about the teacher unions?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Not that I know of. But they do have alliances to other parties, like the one from Evo Morales, called MAS. And as I said in Lima they have had a recent alliance with other leftwing parties, like New Peru and Patria Roja, which is part of the traditional left.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: Now what I'm wondering is if Peru is a bit like the USA, where one elected person has a lot of power (like the president), or is it more restricted? The reason why I'm asking this, is because I want to know if Castillo can actually go through these land reforms, which he's planning to do.

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: No it wouldn't be easy. First of call there are different groups in power, behind the politics, like the big business men. They would not be happy, that certain reforms have been done.
A new constitution would remove the cartell of neoliberalism, which we have at the moment in Peru. So it wouldn't be easy to go through with all this change, but yes Pedro Castillo doesn't have or would have all the power. The congress for example has a lot of candidates and parties, which wouldn't allow these things to just pass.
Take for example Alberto Fujimori from the party Forza Popular. Last year they were always trying to oppose all the policies, which the government had. And this wasn't because it came from the left, but because it threatened their power. So it's obvious that they don't want to do policies for the people, but for themselves, which is big business.
And for example I remember one specific case of Forza Popular, which opposed a law, which was going to stop rape in the prisons. But they opposed it because it contained identity politics.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: Pff oh my god.

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Yes it's really ridiculous, but they do policies like that, which doesn't help the country.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: Okay. Now we know that the traditional left in Peru has a bad name, due to the extremely radical gonzaloite Group fighting, which was called the "Shining Path". They went around killing other leftists and even liberals and thus really smeared the name of the traditional left. But what exactly happened in Peru, after their leader Gonzalo was locked up? Because the way I understand it the group started to fall apart and the had to resort to selling cocain on the black market, in order to fund their activities.

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Yes of course. And the peasants which now are at Perú Libre, fight against the Shining Path and also the teachers in the unions and the students in the university of course the left wing. Because they experienced the attacks against them and as you said they killed them. In the streets dogs with explosives were hanged and in the buildings to threaten the left-wing as the shining path saw them as dogs. There was a big contradiction. Even the government of that time avoided telling the people that the left-wing and even the peasants, unions and other sectors of the people are fighting against the Shining Path. It was ridiculous to assume that the left-wing as a whole was terrorist because they fought...

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: Do you mean fight like in a sense of politically fighting, or actually with guns and other weapons?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Politically they fought in the unions for example and in the student organisations and in the streets. For example there was a known case of María Elena Moyano. She was a social activist of the leftand she was killed by the Shining Path, becuase she was present in all these organisations of the people, which the Shining Path wanted to enter. And the peasants fought with guns against them.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: Oh wow. And how did they influence the entire political landscape? Like we know that the traditional left has a bad name, but what specifically changed in the landscape?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: I think there was one moment, where the entire left was united in one party, which was called "Izquierda Unida", which means "United Left". They participated in elections and won in some parts of the country and they aquired this new appearance. So they were no longer seen as terrorists. They weren't connected anymore to the Shining Path, as they participated in the elections, unlike the Shining Path. At the time it was very common for right-wing parties, to call the left-wing "terrorists"

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: So they used that against them? Like they said "Oh so you're traditional left? So you must like the Shining Path and Gonzalo and want to kill everyone?"

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Yes, exactly.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: I see. Yes because that was my next question, but you've already answered that.

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Yes this is what they tried to do, because they also wanted to generate fear in the population and division. But the left-wing fought against the Shining Path and it's really ridiculous to assumethat they were terrorists.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: So we in Proletariat Switzerland already know for a very long time, that the USA likes to go around the world, to overthrow elected governments for their own gains. Are you worried that the USA will be meddling in Peru, as they did with your neighbour countries, which are also on the same continent?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Could be. Evo Morales was also accused abroad and he was forced to leave Bolivia. And here the right-wing and also supported groups of the United States and other imperialist countries and organisations, are accusing Pedro Castillo of fraud. So it will be at some point clear, that they might come here to Peru and kick out Pedro Castillo directly or if they will influence in some way...

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: Yes like for instance the NED (National Endownment for Democracy), fund some neoliberal Think-Tank?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Yes something like that.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: To go back to the Shining Path. Is the Shining Path still active there? Is it still relevant? Because as far as I can recall the leader Gonzalo is still locked up.

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Indeed. The Shining Path was a kind of organisation, which depended on the commission, the committee permanente. That was Abimael Guzmán (the leader) as the dictator. So when they captured him Abimael Guzmán, the entire structure of the organisation came trembling down. Because it wasn't really a party. It was more like a cult around Abimael Guzmán. A party is more institutionalized, they have like militants, they have policy etc. But the Shining Path was different. They were near to things like a pol-pot party or something like that. They weren't an institutional party and so when Abimael Guzmán was captured all fell apart.
And right now there's a part of what was the Shining Path, because the Shining Path doesn't really exist anymore. It's only the remains of the Shining Path. They are drug terrorists. They are like the dogs of drug dealers. So they are generating fear in the jungle of peru, but they are not the Shining Path. In order for them to survive, they went to the drug gangs. And there isn't the political side of the Shining Path anymore.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: Ah I see. So they don't actually still follow gonzaloism and they aren't actually original members and there are some new members, which are copy-cating what has been done, they're kind of acting, like a LARP (Live Action Role Play), they are repeating what has been done in the past?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: They changed their way of acting. They even have a website. They are like the political arm of the Shining Path, that wasn't very big and they have some militants. I remember that they interviewed some members of mine, but they weren't relevant and we didn't think that they are going to take the power or something. There are a reduced number of people that sticks to the gonzaloist line at some time, but they don't have this way of functioning, as the Shining Path did. And so they don't really have this war that happened, between the state and the Shining Path.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: Was it hard to organise during this time, when there was a war between the Shining Path and the state?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: I wasn't alive, but I can tell you something about it. I have friends, which are traditional-left and what happened in that time, as you said they didn't have this capacity of peacefully organising themselves, as they had to fight with terrorism and so this was very difficult, when you wanted to organise a union or participate in an organisation of students so they had a lot of steps because of the conflict, but not only because of the terrorism of the Shining Path, but also from the state terrorism. Because they would take people away forever. A friend of mine knew someone at the time which dissapeared from the university. 20 Years ago. And his father doesn't know where he is. They never found his body. And also at the time the state killed a lot of social activists, which were accused of being terrorists. So the left-wing was a sector which suffered from both sides.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: So there was like a change in the government? It sounds to me like the government wasn't necessarily fascist, but very anti-traditional left?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Yes, yes. Very anti-traditional left. It was a dictatorship of Fujimori. But in economic terms it was very neoliberal, but in the way of government it was very authoritarian and even anti-people at some point, because they killed workers and peasants and it was very hard to do politics at the time.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: So what actually made the government change? Is it like still a dictatorship today, or is it no more?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: No it's no longer a dictatorship. He was kicked out of the state and there was a transitional government, which allowed elections.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: Well that concludes all the questions. Is there anything more you want to talk about Peru specific?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: So at the time it was really hard and the peasants came to Lima, which were were helping to build this organisation, because the right wing wants to changethe situation, because currently Pedro Castillo has won, but they (big business) wants to change it and as said at the beginning of the interview, because they are not happy that the constitution, economics and politics could be changed and even the model could be changed and so they are trying to manipulate the election results. And the peasants came to Lima, from the countryside to defend the votes. So currently they are collecting food, because they are sleeping in the streets in the front of the office and they are like fighting for the election that they have made Pedro Castillo president.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: So they really pushed for that.

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Yes, yes. Also it will be positive, if Pedro Castillo would become president, as the economics would be changed. Not necessarily into a socialist mode of production, but in a capitalist system, that allows us to develop our productive forces and stop being a country which is dependent on other countries.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: So do you think it'll be a model like Venezuela has?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: No, not Venezuela. Because the situation in Venezuela is very different. As there are international conflicts, but maybe like Bolivia. In that country they are improving the quality of life of the people. And with good relations between both countries maybe also with Argentina, Chile even we can as a big country develop ourselves and stop depending on international capital and imperialism and have our own autonomy. I think that is very important for the development of the country.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: So what kind of natural resources does Peru have?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Mining, culture also tourism but it mainly depends on the commodities. And that's good for that

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: I see. But with natural resources I mean things like oil, gas...

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Mining minerals like Gold, bronze and all that kind of stuff.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: And is this currently in private hands or in public hands?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: In private hands. Some businesses like Yanacocha or the southern corportation which both extract minerals where Pedro Castillo lived during his childhood has lots of minerals. But ironically it's the poorest part of the country. So they aren't receiving what they produce. And that isn't because of capitalism necessarily, but because the enterprises that work there extract and don't develop that part, but they...

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: Do they like ruin the environment by extracting these things?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Also, because there are also social conflicts in the country and for example there are children which have metal in their blood and these people don't resepct the community. They don't care about the citizens. They only care about their economic gains. For example Canada.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: So are these companies owned by the peruvian private owners, or are they like foreign companies?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Foreign companies.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: And Castillo hasn't said anything specific on the question of the natural resources?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Well he has this motto, that there are no poor people in a rich country. And he thinks what we could do is to nationalize these resources or tax these big foreign companies

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: So they would be like S.O.Es (State Owned Enterprises)? Where they sell the resources as the state to foreign companies and use these profits to fund the infrastructure?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Yes. That is what we need to have to develop through mining the minerals for ourselves.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: No, I think it sounds good and I hope that Castillo will be, or is he elected now? Because the way I understood it he is elected?

Member of Patria Roja, Diego Rotstain: Yes he is elected, but the right wing isn't exactly happy with the result and so they are trying to change the results through legal ways. They have lawyers and they want to fight for those votes.

Party leader of Proletariat Switzerland, Jason Banyer: Thank you very much for the Interview.